Tag: lake of fire

Outside

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“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.  Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers, and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.”  Revelation 22:14-15

On the way home from visiting family over the Independence Day holiday I was listening to a Christian program on the radio.  It was one of those ‘Bible answer man’ type shows where people would call or write with questions.  The guy who was answering them was from Moody Bible Institute.  I’m pretty sure he had a doctorate of theology (ThD).

The subject of the verse is the city ‘New Jerusalem’ that will come down out of heaven and be the dwelling place for everyone on the new earth.  The subject of the question was basically, “what’s going on here?”.  The questioner said it sounded like there are unsaved people on the new earth living outside the gates of the new Jerusalem. 

I was really surprised at the answer that the scholar gave.

He said that it appeared from the passage that the Lake of Fire would be within eyesight of the new Jerusalem and that those who are living in the city would be able to see the suffering unsaved burning in the lake. 

I’ll pause here while you look at the passage and contemplate the response he gave.

I was kind of shocked at the level of understanding he showed.   It was evidence that a ThD does not make you Biblically literate. 

Before I get into the problems with the doctor’s answer, and the correct understanding of the passage, you should read my post “Eternal Torment or Eternal Destruction“.  If you haven’t read it or ever considered that the unsaved will be destroyed instead of suffering in unimaginable burning pain for eternity, it will give you the background and support of my response.

I can understand why the scholar responded the way he did.  He believes that people will suffer for eternity while burning in the Lake of Fire.  His bias and his ‘programming’ was what informed him of the passage’s meaning.  In other words, his incorrect belief led him to conclude that the saved will be able to see the unsaved roasting in the Lake of Fire. 

There are 2 problems.  One is his incorrect understanding of hell and judgment in the Bible.  The other problem is his lack of discernment as to the context of the passage. 

In a nutshell, the context is about spiritual position or condition, not geographic location.

Take a look at Rev. 22:12.  It says that Jesus is coming to render to every man according to what he has done.  It’s a future event.  For the saved it’s rewards.  For the unsaved it’s destruction.   (“And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord.” 1 Thess. 1:9)  Those who do not obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thess 1:8) will be destroyed away from the presence of the Lord. 

Rev. 22:14 also gives an obvious clue that vs. 15 is metaphorical and is talking about spiritual condition rather than geographic location.  It says ‘blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the RIGHT to the tree of life and MAY enter into the city’.  The others in vs. 15 do not have that right and they are characterized as outside.  They do NOT have the right to enter into the city and they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed. 

I would venture to say that the scholar conflated Rev. 22:15 with Matt. 8:12 – “the sons of the kingdom shall be cast into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”   My guess is that he believes these verses are saying the same thing.  They are not.

Matt. 8 is talking about hell, not the Lake of Fire.  There IS weeping and gnashing of teeth in the darkness and heat of hell as these souls await their judgment at the Great White Throne in Revelation 20.  They will be judged and then destroyed in the Lake of Fire. 

Think about it.  If it’s outer darkness, then how would anyone from the New Jerusalem be able to see into it?  And what would be the purpose of having the Lake of Fire right by the New Jerusalem and everyone in the city constantly having to view the horrible suffering going on (that is if anyone was actually suffering in it besides Satan, the antichrist and false prophet – Rev. 20:10).   It’s absurd on it’s face.

The Greek definition of the word ‘outside’ in Rev. 22:15 is ‘exo’ which does mean outside.  Metaphorically, they are outside of the city.  They are not in the position or have the right to enter into the city that is coming.  They are separated from the glory and blessing of salvation.  The opposite of inside is outside.  In other words, a person can be both destroyed and also outside of the city.  The point is they are not IN the city.

We are not going to be subjected to some senseless and cruel eternal spectacle of tormented and suffering souls.  Neither will anyone suffer like that for eternity other than Satan, the antichrist and the false prophet. 

The Pope is right…sort of.

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“Pope Declares No Hell”

Evidently in an interview with some Italian atheist, Pope Francis declared that there is no hell and that condemned souls disappear.   In response to a question about ‘where are bad souls punished?’, the head of the Roman Catholic Church said, “They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls.” 

You can find the article about the interview here.

Not surprisingly, this has caused quite an uproar in the RCC.  I am not here to defend Catholic Church doctrine at all.   I am not Catholic.  However, the pope is partially right.  He is wrong that there is no hell, and that unbelievers are not punished.  He is right that eventually they will just disappear and not exist. 

The Bible clearly teaches that there is a hell.  So the pope would be denying Scripture to say it doesn’t exist.  What the pope does seem to believe, or at least align with, and what most of Christendom does not, is that the condemned souls will be destroyed at the Great White Throne judgment (Revelations 20:11-15).  At that judgment, after the end of the Millennial Kingdom, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire (which is not hell) and destroyed.  They WILL just disappear and not exist.  They will not spend eternity in hell, in other words.  Hell is just a waiting place, and it is terrible suffering while they wait. 

And even if the pope does not believe there is a hell, and that condemned souls just disappear, the fact that they are not with God for eternity IS punishment.  So he is wrong that they are not punished.

Hell does exist, but there is no ETERNAL hell.  I won’t go into all of the Scriptural basis for this doctrine in this post.  Read my earlier post “Eternal Torment or Eternal Destruction”.

Dan Baker

Eternal Torment or Eternal Destruction?

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Hell

The Bible simply does not teach that the lost sinner will spend eternity in unimaginable pain and torment in a raging inferno. 

It teaches that every person is born doomed to destruction unless they receive Jesus Christ as their Savior. 

When a person receives Jesus, they receive eternal life.  There are no passages that say a person will spend eternity in hell or fire.  If they do not obey the Gospel of Salvation, then they will wait in hell until the Great White Throne judgment and be thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed. 

The idea of eternal suffering in hell is a conclusion based on poor hermenuetics, or method of interpretation.

The opposite of eternal life is eternal death.

“God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not PERISH, but have ETERNAL LIFE.”  John 3:16

“These (the unsaved – 1Thess 1:8) will pay the penalty of eternal DESTRUCTION, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power”.1 Thess. 1:9

This position is called ‘conditionalism’, or ‘annihilationism’. 

In other words, eternal life is conditional.  Mankind is not born into immortality.  We are born doomed unless we accept Jesus Christ.  This is obeying the gospel of our Lord Jesus.   If one does not obey the gospel, they are destroyed.

If you obey the Gospel by repenting and accepting Christ as your Savior and Lord, then you receive the GIFT of eternal life.  If you do not, then you will be destroyed. 

Eternal destruction does not mean that you are slowly destroyed for eternity.  That is ridiculous.  It means that you are destroyed and there is no undoing.  The destruction is eternal, no coming back, you will no longer exist.

There are a few critical points that must be understood:

  1. Hades and Hell are the same thing.
  2. Hell is not the Lake of Fire.
  3. The Lake of Fire is also known as Gehenna.
  4. Hell/Hades is a waiting place for the Great White Throne judgment.
  5. Hades/hell will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire prior to the eternal state.

Hades and Hell are the same.

In the story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:23), the rich man has died and gone to Hades where he is in torment.  This is hell.  It is hot and there is no water.  (see my post “What’s in the Water”) This is where all the lost go until the Great White Throne judgment.

Hell is not the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 20:14 says that Hades is thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed.  They can not be the same.  Hades is thrown in with death.  We know that death will be destroyed.  1 Corinthians 15:26 says that the last enemy to be destroyed is death.  Hades will be destroyed with it.  They are not going to be slowly consumed, but never totally, for eternity.  Neither will the lost be slowly consumed, but never totally, for eternity.  That is nonsense, frankly.

The Lake of Fire is also known as Gehenna.

In Mark 9:43-48 Jesus is teaching and says it’s better to remove parts of the body that cause you to stumble rather than keep them and be cast into Gehenna.  If your Bible says ‘hell’ that is a mis-transliteration.  The Greek is ‘Gehenna’. 

Gehenna is a derivative of words that mean ‘Valley of Hinnom’.  It was literally the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where a constant fire was burning to consume all of the refuse including dead carcasses. 

This is not synonymous with hell.  The constant consuming fire is the Lake of Fire where everything thrown in will be consumed (except Satan, the Beast and False Prophet – Rev. 20:10).

Jesus said, “Do not fear those who can kill the body but are unable to kill the soul, but fear Him who can destroy the body and soul in Gehenna.”  Matthew 10:28. 

Again, if your bible says ‘hell’ instead of Gehenna, that is another mis-transliteration. 

There are a couple of ways to understand this verse, both end up with the unsaved being destroyed.  How to understand it depends on whether you understand Revelation 20:5 to mean that the unsaved receive a body when they  ‘come to life’. 

In Rev. 20:5 it says that the first resurrection (at the end of the tribulation) are the righteous that died during the tribulation.  Blessed are those who participate in that.  The rest of the dead (unsaved) do not come to life until after the 1000 year kingdom. 

If they just come to life and do not receive a body then the verse would be understood this way:  ‘but fear him who can destroy the body, and destroy the soul in Gehenna’. 

If they do receive another fleshly body then it would be easier to understand it as ‘destroy the body and soul’. 

It does seem to make more sense that they would receive some kind of body especially the way Matthew 10:28 is written.  It says man can ‘KILL’ the body, but God can ‘DESTROY’ the body and soul in Gehenna. Plus, they are already ‘alive’ in hell, so to say they will ‘come to life’ seems inappropriate and redundant unless the meaning is some type of regeneration of the old body.

The point either way is they will be destroyed in Gehenna – the Lake of Fire.  This is the second death in Rev. 20:14.  The first death is the death of the body; the second death is the death of the soul – eternal destruction.

Hell/Hades is a waiting place for the lost until the Great White Thrown judgment.

Refer back to the story of Lazarus and the rich man.  The rich man was not in the Lake of Fire, he was in Hades.  He will be judged and destroyed at the great judgment.  Rev. 20:13 says that Hades will give up the dead that are in it, and then they will be judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 14:9-11 is not talking about eternal torment in hell or Lake of Fire.

This is a passage used quite often to prove eternal torment of the lost.  It is saying no such thing.  Read it carefully.  In order to make it say eternal torment for the lost, you must insert the meaning, you can not take it out of it.

“9. And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice,’If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, 10. he will also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11. And the smoke of the their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.'”

The people who take this mark and worship the beast think that this is going to make their lives easy (Rev. 13:17).  In actuality, God says it is going to be just the opposite.  In other words, this is describing a terrible hardship doled out by God in the last days of the tribulation.  I believe it is in order to get these people to repent before it is too late.

What the ‘eternal torment’ supporters will say is that this verse says they will be tormented forever.  It says no such thing.  It says they will drink of the wrath of God in full strength.  The context here is while they are alive on the earth.  Keep reading the passage and go to verse 18-19.

“18. And another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying ‘Put in your sharp sickle, and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe. 19. And the angel swung his sickle to the earth, and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God.”

The point is that this is describing the wrath of God being poured out on the earth, not the final judgment at the Great White Throne.

The passage in 14:11 says that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever.  Two things here: it is the smoke of their torment, and it goes up as far as it can, into the eternal heavens.  It is describing location and distance, not time. 

The original Aramaic says the smoke goes up to the ‘eternity of eternities’.  It is NOT saying their torment goes on in time for eternity.   The passage does not give liberty to draw that meaning from it.

Take a look at Isaiah 34:9-10.  It is talking about God’s wrath against the nations and in this case in particular, Edom.  “And its streams shall be turned into pitch, and its loose earth into brimstone, and its land shall become burning pitch. 10. It shall not be quenched night or day; it’s smoke shall go up forever; from generation to generation it shall be desolate; none shall pass through it forever and ever.”

Clearly, Edom is not smoking today.  The smoke going up ‘forever’ is idiomatic.  It is about how high it is going.

Also, the passage in Revelation 14 says that these will be tormented in the presence of the of the Lamb, and they will have no rest.  The context is ‘on earth’.  These are suffering in the presence of God, and God is receiving the smoke.  On the contrary, at the great judgment, the lost will “suffer the penalty of eternal destruction AWAY from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.”

To say that this passage is talking about eternal torment in hell is simply bad exegesis.

Matthew 24:41

Matt. 25:41 is another major verse used to support eternal torment for the lost.  “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;'”

First, what is this verse NOT saying?  It does not say that the accursed will suffer torment for eternity.  It just says they will be cast into the eternal fire. 

We know the eternal fire is Gehenna or Lake of Fire, not hell/Hades.  It is the fire that is constantly burning that consumes everything thrown into it.  As already pointed out, it is synonymous with the Valley of Hinnom, which is the garbage dump that was outside Jerusalem that had the continuous fire (Matt. 10:28).

It also says that the Lake of Fire is prepared for Satan and his messengers.  The Greek word for angel is aggelos, which means messenger or envoy.  Who are Satan’s envoys?  They are the false prophet and antichrist, are they not?  They are to be Satan’s agents or representatives, who are to come.  According to the verse, these are whom the Lake of Fire is prepared for.  Rev. 20:10 says that Satan, the false prophet and the beast (antichrist) will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and their torment will go on for eternity.

Now, I’m not saying that the rebellious angels are not thrown into the Lake of Fire.  I’m just saying that Scripture only designates Satan, the false prophet and the antichrist for eternal torment.  I can not say with certainty that the fallen angels will be tormented for eternity.  But they will at minimum be cast in and destroyed.

Outer Darkness

Matthew records 3 different passages where the unsaved or wicked are cast into the outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (8:12, 22:13 and 25:30). 

There is nothing in the passages that say this is the Lake of Fire or eternal torment.  A strong enough case has been made that the Lake of Fire consumes and destroys, so the weeping and gnashing of teeth will not happen there. 

I’m going to bring in the Book of Enoch here.  This extra-biblical book is valid spiritual history and that is how the ancient Hebrew viewed it. 

One reason I can say it is valid is because the Bible quotes it and references it (Jude 6, 1Peter 3:19-20, 2 Peter 2:4), therefore God affirms it.  I am by no means claiming it is ‘God breathed’ scripture. 

In Enoch 22 there is a description of the separation of the places for the unrighteous and righteous dead souls.

Enoch 22: 9-13:

“9. At that time therefore I inquired respecting him, and respecting the general judgment, saying, Why is one separated from another? He answered, Three separations have been made between the spirits of the dead, and thus have the spirits of the righteous been separated.

10. Namely, by a chasm, by water, and by light above it.  

11. And in the same way likewise are sinners separated when they die, and are buried in the earth; judgment not overtaking them in their lifetime. 

12. Here their souls are separated. Moreover, abundant is their suffering until the time of the great judgment, the castigation, and the torment of those who eternally execrate, whose souls are punished and bound there for ever. 

13. And thus has it been from the beginning of the world. Thus has there existed a separation between the souls of those who utter complaints, and of those who watch for their destruction, to slaughter them in the day of sinners.”

What Enoch is saying is there are 3 things that separate the unsaved from the saved who are dead (that was pre-cross; now the saved go straight to heaven, but hell remains the same).  There is a chasm, water and light above the water.  (As an aside, Enoch also affirms the destruction of the lost) 

Remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-26)?  It says the rich man asked if Lazarus could dip his finger in the water and put it on the rich man’s tongue.   Abraham said there was a chasm that may not be crossed.  Both passages describe the chasm and water. 

Jesus is actually affirming Enoch in his telling of this story.  But the important thing here is that one of the things that the righteous have and the unrighteous do not is light.  I believe that the only conclusion you can arrive at is that the outer darkness is hell.  It is dark, hot and there is no water.  And there is weeping and gnashing of teeth as they ponder their disobedience to the gospel and their coming judgment at the Great White Throne.

Conditionalism represents the true nature of God.

Finally, to understand that the final judgment is eternal death/destruction is to understand the true nature of God.  For someone to suffer eternal unfathomable agony and torture is senseless and cruel.  God’s justice is righteous, for sure, but it is not maniacal. 

What would be the point of eternal torture?  It’s bad enough that you will not live forever with God.  Spending at least 1000 years in hell (or more for the lost that are already dead) knowing you are going to be destroyed for all eternity, is pretty dreadful.

Dan Baker